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threesixty 9:34 Thu Nov 10
Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Neil Lennon talking about the decline of Scottish football..

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/09/scotland-talent-decline-kenny-dalglish-england-wembley
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“I don’t think the kids get enough football,” Lennon says. “I’ve seen boys in my time come to the academy, train two or three times a week where how much of the ball they see is dependent on the individual coaching session. Then they might travel three hours for a game on a Saturday and only play 15 minutes. If we go on about the 10,000 hours theory as an indicator of elite athletes and football players, we are not getting anywhere near that.

“A lot of ‘ordinary’ kids make up the numbers, which dilutes the quality. I think the quality ones will always come through but I’m not convinced the system works; I mean from eight, nine, 10. I’m not a big lover of coaching kids at that age. My boy is 10, I have been to watch him at boys’ clubs where they don’t see a ball for 20 minutes. That is 20 minutes of a session wasted where he could be shooting and passing.
“Sometimes we coach the natural instincts out of them. Where are the dribblers now? Where are the people who break the lines and take people on? We have become a nation of nice little passers. It has become about the 10-yard pass in front of teams, keeping possession. They don’t take chances.”
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Does this apply to English football as well? Is this really the reason we don't produce great players for the national team? Is this the reason we end up with foreign players all the time because there just coached better at a young age?
Why aren't we radically changing children's coaching? Should under 15s even be playing full 11 aside matches on huge pitches if many of them don't get time on the ball?

Maybe we don't have shit footballers just shit coaches and a terrible coaching system for children?

Grumpster 9:38 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

I'm a little ashamed that we've gone from being one of the clubs still using the most Englishman, to being amongst the lowest.

Pub Bigot 9:40 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

He may well have a point. Gutless FAs within the whole British Isles know better though.

Troy McClure 9:51 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

I help teach an under 9s team and the drills were told to do are mostly garbage. I end up telling those with certain strengths to keep working on them

Was funny the other week - 4 Chelsea fans weren't so gobby after the cup game

ornchurch ammer 9:55 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

If you think about it logically 15 year olds on a full size pitch should have a lot of time on the ball unless they are all charging about like a load of nutters.

IMO the damage is done by clubs taking kids in to academies from the age of 8 and thinking that they can bring them on better than if they stayed with their local clubs. All kids need to be doing at that age is playing and honing their basic skills such as control, pass and shoot. You don't build a house without laying foundations.

The amount of times that you hear of kids being signed by academies and then released before their next birthday as they are not good enough is depressing.

Eddie B 10:00 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Didn't Trevor Brooking try and change things when he was at the FA, but was sidelined and ignored?

mallard 10:00 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Totally agree with ornchurch, kids often get knocked back at such a young age they lose interest.
My mates son got released from Charlton at 10 because he was'too short' - try telling that to Messi and Maradonna !!

JOHNNY V 10:25 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

It seems these days that clubs just hoover up any kids that can kick a ball straight at a young age and see how they develop, anyone I speak to who has a young son tells me they are with this club or that club. When I was a kid the coaching was still shit but you had to be a bit special to be on the books of a professional club.
Maybe it's the decline of kids playing football in the street/parks that has forced them down this route.

Russ of the BML 10:26 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Personally I only think professional clubs should have academies for 15 years and over. The first time a young player can sign for a professional club should be 15 and they go into the U'16's.

This would give kids a chance to play and learn at local level and then you don't end up with kids being over-coached technically at such a young age and also stops this knocking back by clubs to kids at such a young age.

If a kid at 15 is good enough then professional clubs can court them and they can go to where they feel they want to. This will be where they start to learn the more technical side of the game and really move into pro fitness regimes.

There is always a chance at 17, 18 or 19 they will be told they are not good enough but it stops all this crap about 9, 10 and 11 year olds being knocked back. Bloody ridiculous situation.

Also, there should be a cap on the contracts offered for all 15 year olds. Then 16 years olds, 17 year olds and so on. Up to 18. Then if at 18 the kids is good enough they can sign a professional contract. But I still think these should be capped. And I think only when a player reaches 21 can they then be offered a contract that has no restrictions. This would keep their feet on the ground and stop all this Billy Big Bollocks stuff of kids at 17 and 18 on £5k or £10k a week because they show 'a bit of potential'.

This will also even out the playing field and allow local kids to play for local clubs because you won't have a situation where a 16 or 17 year old from East London can go to West Ham on, say £1k a week, but chooses to go to Man Citeh because they are offering £3k per week. Hopefully in the long term this will see more teams fielding local players.

I think top pro clubs should also have to pay local FA's a certain amount each year which goes into a slosh pot which is shared out to local clubs. This will help with pitch rental or training facilities. Even kits or equipment.

And if there is the cap then the clubs know more local boys will play locally and so they have a vested interest in paying into this fund as there is more likelihood they are going to benefit from a player in the coming years.

Just some ideas.

Nagel 10:36 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

I think one of Brooking's main issues was the lack of qualified coaches. Not sure of the figures now but at the time he got sidelined England had less than 3000, compared with 24k in Spain, 30k in Italy and 35k in Germany.

Nagel 10:40 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Russ,

The issue is not kids being over-coached technically. Quite the opposite. It's pretty obvious that the English are technically way behind their European counterparts where youth coaching concentrates on technique - passing, control, etc. and not on the physical part of the game - strength, speed, etc. which is what happens here.

ornchurch ammer 10:49 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

There are a lot more qualified coaches now purely because of local FA rules that you must be at least Level 1 to manage a junior team. Level 1 is basic but a lot of these coaches go on to do Level 2 or the Youth Modules and some do the Goalkeeping courses. This means that a lot of kids get better coaching with their clubs than what they do if they train with a professional club.

Does anyone really think that professional clubs assign their top coaches to the kids? No they are youngsters on minimum pay who do it for the kudos of saying that they coach at X, Y or Z.

Rossal 10:56 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

The coaching is good

The ability and facilities to become a good coach are not there. Coaching badges on the FA are ridiculously expensive

Sven Roeder 11:06 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Cant say I have ever seen kids playing in the street with a football in the 20+ years I have lived in London.
And the only playing fields I am aware of near where I live in NW London belong to a school (private) and have huge fuck off fences with razor wire on the top of them.

Far Cough 11:08 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Cant say I have ever seen kids playing in the street with a football in the 20+ years I have lived in London.


Sad but true, in my day, that's what you would have seen on many streets, 20 / 30 a side games that went on all day and only stopped when it got dark

Nicey 11:09 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

I was at a club where everything was down with the ball at your feet

The long runs round the field

The short sprints

The briefing sessions while juggling

Every player had their own ball and was made to value and respect it

There was never a moment when people would be stood still doing nothing.



I have the worst touch out of every player I know so I have no idea if it worked or not

Rossal 11:10 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Interesting bit from Arry today. Gives his take on youngsters in this country and how things have changed coaching wise

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3921228/HARRY-REDKNAPP-England-bland-play-no-flair-Gareth-Southgate-great-lad-m-not-excited-anyone.html

Says it how he is, think the FA missed a trick not offering him a adversary role over someone young like Howe

Sven Roeder 11:12 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

They may have been a bit of a free for all but playing in the street was effectively a small sided game which needed quick feet and sharp passing

JUMPERS FOR GOALPOSTS
MARVELLOUS

Nicey 11:12 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Russ I agree to a point

I would say that pro clubs can sign and affiliate a player to them but they remain at their local club until 15. Perhaps there could be some interventions along the way but the late nights, relying on parents to drive miles, stress etc doesn't help development.

Let the kids play. Invest in local clubs. Make it fun. Use the ball and then pick the best.

Sven Roeder 11:17 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Don't the really young kids stay with their local clubs and train at the likes of WHU once a week or so?
And aren't there rules about kids having to live within a certain distance from the club?

Rossal 11:40 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Academies is an Hour and half

COE an hour or something along those lines

I dont think it is policed very much though and the clubs use various tactics to get around it

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